Saturday nights,
tvN, South Korea,
Starting Saturday 7th December 2013
We’re keeping our fingers crossed for English subtitles. Amazing Youtube user Bumdidlyumptious very kindly subbed the first series and has suggested they will do the second. Don’t expect them immediately, would be my advice. Unfortunately Youtube has taken them down but they might still be possible to view, you can follow on Twitter for latest news. Edit: they’re viewable through links on her Tumblr.
Episode 1 discussion (including links) starts here.
Episode 2 discussion starts here.
Episode 3 discussion starts here.
Episode 4 discussion starts here.
Episode 5 discussion starts here.
Episode 6 discussion starts here.
Episode 7 discussion starts here.
Episode 8 discussion starts here.
Episode 9 discussion starts here.
Episode 10 discussion starts here.
Episode 11 discussion starts here.
Episode 12 discussion starts here.
What is The Genius?
The Genius is a very interesting South Korean cable reality game that pits 13 Korean celebrities against each other in social games of strategy, logic, mental agility and psychological skill. Winning games means winning garnets, the show’s currency, which can be used to make games easier (buying extra hints, for example) or for use to buy favour with other contestants. Losing games means risking elimination in the Death Match. At the end of the series the last player standing gets all their garnets converted into hard cash. It’s heavily influenced by the Japanese Liar Game manga series.
It’s also very stylish, with interesting use of flashbacks and forwards, graphics, and a terrific soundtrack borrowed variously from films and amazing Korean electronic band Idiotape. I wholeheartedly recommend their album.
And if that trailer looked good, you can watch the entire first series subbed. Here’s what we thought of it.
If you’re a regular reader of the Bar it is very likely this is a show that will hold some appeal for you. For the second series I thought it would be fun to have its own page for discussion of the show – quality of challenges, quality of strategy, quality of contestants. There’s likely to be a lot to talk about!
Spoiler Warnings:
If it has been subbed it is fair game. Links to subbed episodes can be found on Bumpdidlyumptious’ Twitter feed. Enter at your own risk!
If you’re watching it from Korea (for example!) we would appreciate limiting discussion to episodes that are viewable with English subtitles.
WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN?
http://youtu.be/xGVi4lbR9YE
Game one sounds like it’s some sort of Murder in the Dark thing:
http://youtu.be/kRHLT-Vc1jU
Just finished binging on season 1, brill stuff I should have gotten into further and I’ll leave it at that.
I do wonder why season 2 is subtitled “rule breaker” – call me speculative (and call me dumb if something’s been revealed I don’t know about), but some kind of Mole element? It would certainly make Bar patrons happy.
Where by “further” I mean “earlier”. No idea where the communication between brain and fingers went there.
Happens to us all, Lewis 😀 We all get the dizzyfingers at some point or another. I need to get watching Season 1 as well, I only watched the first 2 episodes fully and got part-way through episode 3 (the bread game).
The first season was subtitled “The Rules Of The Game”, so it might just be riffing off of that. But anything’s possible.
Preview of Game One: Food Chain!
http://youtu.be/npc6q0cz3C4
Based on the preview, I’m going to hazard a guess that Jinho has managed to pull an Akiyama, pretending to be cornered to make everyone else let their guard down while secretly plotting some way to win.
Given that the opposite of the previews always happens, Jinho and Sangmin are probably going to blow everyone’s minds.
Also, the lawyer Yoonsun is actually a 7 time in a row winner on a quiz show.
Hidden immunity idol!
http://youtu.be/nMuZ1PZARFY
I’m kinda torn on this, but if they make it hard to find even with the clues I won’t have too much of a problem with it (and it is different that the person can pick the replacement for the deathmatch and it’s only usable one time- I wonder if the person who finds it can give it to another person to use if they want?)
The first game looks interesting- let’s see how it’ll work.
I wonder if the rules have any contingency plan in the event the token hasn’t been used up by penultimate episode? Or would it simply be rendered useless?
Probably rendered useless, though possibly exchanged for a garnet/s?
Intrigued by this, wonder how the lion loses:
http://youtu.be/KcHIoGxtkDk
Bearing in mind that I haven’t fully understood the rules:
Surviving doesn’t necessarily help you meet your win condition, so the fact that the Lion is guaranteed to survive might not be important. The Lion’s advantage is a frequent choice of who to kill.
If the Lion win condition was ‘get 2/3 others to attack you by choice’, that could be interesting. Killing others would then greatly harm the Lion’s own chances.
I think the text below the win condition might be a lose condition since two of the letters are the same. Maybe something like eating too much of the same level or eating too little?
I’d suspect some of the goals will be mutually exclusive- the game needs at least 2 losers and one winner.
Interesting in the habitat split though- the green (forest) habitat has 4 animals, but all of them are on the bottom level (so they can’t eliminate each other)- I suspect at least one of those four will have the win condition of “be the only one left alive in your habitat”.
I’m actually thinking the lion might have a condition of something like “at least 5 of the 9 animals in the lowest level must be alive” or “the Alligator, Eagle, and Wolf must all be eliminated”- the Lion has the most power since it can eliminate anyone and not be eliminated, so it probably will have a difficult win condition. The wolf might have a simple “stay alive” condition- it’s in the same habitat as the lion, and is the lowest of the four upper level animals..
In the end, I suspect that 5 or fewer people will end up winning- a lot will depend on what information is shared by whom and which animal is revealed to everyone at the beginning…
Wrangling with the HD images of the two cards shown and Google Translate gives me this approximation of what the win and loss conditions are. (Note: I’m paraphrasing Google’s translations of what I think the characters are, so if these prove to be wildly incorrect, don’t be surprised)
Lion
Victory Conditions: Survival.
Defeat Conditions: Ending a round without eating.
Special Rules: None.
Rat
Victory Conditions: The Lion wins.
Defeat Conditions: The Lion dies.
Special Rules: Can see two people’s identities.
I’m guessing one of the other animals has the power to kill the lion in some circumstance if that is true- because otherwise it doesn’t make sense since the lion is the top of the food chain, so how could it be killed?
There’s a parenthetical on the Lion card under the defeat conditions that I ignored that I think reads “(death)”. I now think that means if a round goes by where the Lion did not eat it’ll die.
That makes sense- and I’m wondering if there’s a bottom to top order for “attacks”- so if two animals attack a third at the same time, the one closest to the bottom goes first (hypothetical example- the lion and the eagle both attack the deer- the eagle is successful since it’s closer to the deer in the chain than the lion is- thus the lion also dies from not eating).
Just been watching this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJ6YR3hbY8o and I’m a bit concerned. I make it that we can see 9 men and 3 women. Bit concerned it’s going to get a bit blokey. Yes, the men were arguably the more fun characters but the women added plenty of their own nuances.
It’s an ‘interesting’ choice.
As there will be the launch of the new series today, I was wondering which european TV channels could possibly show it. (I think there was this discussion somewhere before, not entirely sure…)
And I can’t really decide whether it should be a public broadcaster or a commercial one. I think it’s not a show where you have to give a huge prize away in the end and as I also think, (at least in Germany) it would take time to get good audience numbers (except we manage to get really great celebrities), I think it could work better on a public channel. Though for Germany I could also imagine it to be shown thursdays on Prosieben, as this is their non-event-show-slot (unlike SdR which is shown on saturdays as you know) and Prosieben used to air shows with intrigues and mysteries, which could be an audience for the show.
I just wanted to hear, what you think about it as I’m sure you have already thought about it as well.
I still think it would be a pretty hard sell in the West although I’d love to see someone having a go (I suspect the average Korean is more switched on than the average Brit who will see a rules explanation and turn over), I’m convinced the most likely place it would be a success on UK TV is Dave which has at least made a success out of the unusual School of Hard Sums and is a channel best suited to conversation anyway. Dave would actually be fairly likely to pull the cheaper sort of comedians for contestants who would properly get into it as well.
Wow i thought about UK channels and I did not once think about Dave, which really seems like the best possibility to me now!
Looks like our good friend Bumdidlyumptious is having Youtube ‘issues’, follow for latest news – still hopeful.
At the time I write this comment, Bumdidlyumptious’s YouTube channel has been terminated. I feel sad.
Just in case anybody’s not noticed, series 1 has now been removed from YouTube.
Also, you might choose to follow @Bumdidlyump on Twitter if you’re not already.
Just like Mr Bother has already said.
So: episode 1 of season 2! Uploaded to dailymotion in 2 parts
Part 1 – http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1870ol_eng-the-genius-2-ep-1-food-chain-1-2_videogames
Part 2 – http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x187awy_eng-the-genius-2-ep-1-food-chain-2-2_videogames
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Brig Edit: Thanks Lewis, as the first post in the discussion of the episode I’m going to edit in some spoiler space so people have a better chance to avoid seeing things they might not want to see. The top of the page will link to the first post of a episode discussion which should include the relevant links, I’ll edit in some space after the first person posts a link. There’s no need for anyone to do this yourself, I’ll do it in case more than one person posts at the same time.
As far as I’m concerned if it’s gone out you should feel free to discuss it in as much detail as you want, and if you venture without watching the episode first it’s your fault. Fair warning!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
In short, absolutely back on form. Food Chain is undoubtedly entirely too complex for a western audience, but certainly serves for some dramatic twists. Trying not to spoil who is who for those who haven’t seen, I personally think the crow lucked out, I think I would have picked the snake since they were fairly likely to win no matter what happened. Certainly the chameleon choosing to hide as the snake was a good idea, but got found out unfortunately quickly. The moment with the remaining one of the otter/rabbit/deer/mallard being immortal couldn’t have been better timed, I knew it would happen but it happened in a good way.
The deathmatch was refreshingly something new, but also something that like the chain of wins deathmatch was quite reliant on loyalties and teamwork. Very interesting players chosen, since both had teams and strategies for it, and I personally was rooting for the player who did win.
Next week’s game: musical chairs, Genius style!
Let’s not beat around the bush here, Quattro was AMAZING. A-MAZ-ING. Both players ultimately played the best game they could have played under the circumstances I think, so in a sense I suspect Hweejon’s distribution of the cards was just a bit less favourable.
Actually I think on deeper thought it’s not quite as deep as it might look – there’s almost no chance of one of your friends landing the Zero on you in the final turn. However I choose not to think deeply about it because I enjoyed it play out so much.
Food Chain was far too complex for a series opener I think (too many rules and sub-rules) however once it got going it at least set up its own comedy quite well – the lion giving it all that beforehand before hilariously finding he’s done himself over was basically hilarious. It all started out a bit kisschase.
Good opener, looking forward to next week.
Interesting ep- I do agree the main game was a little too complex with so many people, but the Quattro game was very good.
Next week based on the preview looks like there could be several winners or only one winner in the seat exchange:
(they had people marked 1-11, and one person with an X. My guess is that the straight has to be exactly 5, no more, no less. The person drawing the X has to prevent that- if the X player succeeds, that player wins alone- probably winning 5 garnets and gets to pick someone to get immunity and someone to go straight into the deathmatch. If they fail, the X player is in the deathmatch automatically and the 5 players making the straight get one garnet each and are all immune)
>Actually I think on deeper thought it’s not quite as deep as it might look
[Trying to avoid spoilers at too deep a level]
There was at least a level more than was immediately obvious – since you must balance the available cards.
If you play a card in one round just as your opponent is playing the card that you will therefore need in the next round, you just screwed yourself.
Both players did well but it seemed to me (from the footage) that the victor understood this strategy very clearly. One to watch.
I think once the episode has gone up if you wander in here you have to expect people to be talking about it, so spoil away.
Hweejong was ruined by Round 3’s card opening, if not before.
He played Yellow 10 needing Blue 7 for a perfect score.
But Yoonsun played Blue 7, killing Hweejong’s perfect score and needing Yellow 9 (unplayed and I imagine she knew where it was).
Hweejong was certainly in trouble anyway, but trying instead to match up Blue 10 and Yellow 7 would have reached a tie.
I’m wondering if they could have spiced things up a bit with the other 11 players- say the person among the safe ones who had the highest trio (three different colors) after all the trades got a bonus garnet…
Did I miss it, or did the zero never appear in the game after the cards were shuffled? They never mentioned it, so I was genuinely expecting it to make a surprise comeback in someone’s final trade. And I don’t think screwing an ally would’ve been completely out of the question, though it’s probably a very dodgy move to put yourself out there as the bad guy who can’t be trusted so early on. (I didn’t get to see S1, so I don’t know how important alliances are in the long run. Probably pretty important, I’d guess.)
Oh that would have been quite an interesting idea. There’s a decent chance the game will come round again, although doubtlessly rejigged for the numbers, so perhaps they’ll offer that later on.
Loved it! I feel like the players are more charismatic already. Didn’t think I’d like Hongchul, but he’s the right amount of crazy to make things interesting without being too annoying =)
For any boardgame fans, the game Shadow Hunters has a similar basic concept to the Food Chain game. Each player draws a secret unique identity which has its own win and lose conditions that depend on the other players. It’s not a great game, but quick to learn/play.
It’s going to be hard to wait for the next episode each week =)
First of all, loved the show. I went in with very high expectations after seeing the first series and how great it was, and it still blew me away, particularly with Quattro.
I disagreed with the winners when they said Hweejong was a strong player, though I think they were right to select him for the deathmatch. Hweejong simply made too many careless mistakes due to his hubris and complacency. His only backup plan was attacking the mouse, when it was possible that one of the other predators would try to attack the mouse before he got a chance. He figured out in the first round that he should attack the other predators so they don’t take his potential prey, but as far as I could tell, he didn’t actually act on that in subsequent rounds, instead relying on using the mouse as his sole contingency plan and incorrectly assuming that alone would be enough to let him survive. Ultimately, I believe he has nobody else but himself to blame for his Icarus-style downfall. But it was quite entertaining to watch, and his reaction was priceless when he realized he was completely screwed. As James May would say, “What’s the Korean for ‘oh cock’?”
That said, I think the winners were right to pick Hweejong precisely because he appears to be a loose cannon. For subsequent rounds, in my opinion, it’s better to face an opponent whose moves you can try to predict rather than one who might throw a monkey wrench in your carefully laid-out plans because you didn’t expect him to run off getting himself into trouble.
I also think Hweejong shouldn’t have picked Yoonsun for his deathmatch opponent. He should’ve known by that point that Yoonsun was part of an alliance, and picked Jaekyung instead, leaving her scrambling to try and convince the others to cooperate with her, which would put him at an advantage. But Hweejong vs. Jaekyung for the deathmatch probably wouldn’t have been nearly as entertaining to watch, so maybe it’s all for the best.
Like others, I was wondering whether series 2 could live up to the high expectations I had following series 1 but if anything that episode exceeded them. I thought both games were fantastic. Amazing stuff.
One thing I loved about the Food Chain game was the fact that the theme fitted the gameplay particularly well. It makes perfect sense that the birds were the only animals that were able to go to the sky or that the snake might poison anything trying to attack it, for example. (The only thing I thought didn’t quite fit was the fact that when the rabbit’s allies dropped dead that rabbit suddenly became powerful enough to withstand all attacks, but I think I’ll interpret that as a subtle homage to Monty Python.)
I’m amazed how well balanced the game was too, given the fact that the game designers couldn’t have had the opportunity to do months and onths of playtesting beforehand. Somebody needs to make a board/party game version!
No-one’s mentioned the ridiculous new titles yet either. Chess! In the desert!
I LOVED the title sequence in Season 1 so I was going crazy when I saw it was a new one for Season 2! I don’t think the new one is as strong conceptually, but it’s still exciting and fun to watch!
Man, I just want them to keep making this show forever, haha.
When you consider the proliferation of great strategy games in Asia, it’s really interesting that they went with the imagery of chess (specifically, what I suppose you might call western Chess) for the title sequence. Perhaps chess is as exotic to them as, say, go might be to the western audience, I’m not sure. Korea doesn’t have a great chess tradition, as far as I can tell – they have literally one of the world’s thousand-plus grandmasters.
Fantastic opener to Season 2, I wouldn’t expect anything less from The Genius in all honesty.
Some very good moments in the main Food Chain game, like when Hweejong found himself screwed since the rabbit and mallard were together, making them immortal, and the only other animal in the room being the snake, which kills whatever tries to eat it. Serves him right for making himself a target by running his mouth 😀
I also enjoyed Quattro as the death match game. I guess you could make the game for a party if you have a deck of Uno cards, just have 1-10 of the 4 colours and set aside a card to act as the zero, or even with a set of playing cards (Ace to 10 of each suit, and a Joker for the 0). I preferred this game over the Winning Streak game, as all that involved was each death match participant saying what they would throw and it was up to the rest to decide if they would lose to you or not, and Tactical Yutnori made a refreshing change from that as well, as it was judgment-based as well as a bit of luck with the throwing of the sticks.
After seeing Yutnori for the first time, I wondered if it would be the sort of thing that they could do on Schlag den Raab as one of their more offbeat games like Molkky or Kubb.
All in all, a GREAT start to The Genius, and I will be looking forward to seeing the next episode. I will also try to finish off seeing Season 1 as I am up to Episode 6 with that at the moment. It doesn’t matter that I know that Jinho won Season 1, I’m more interested in seeing the games.
Oh, and before anyone says “How can you watch the rest of Season 1 when it’s been taken down from YouTube?”, I planned ahead! You may remember some time back that I once found some episodes of Time Shock 21 and to my shame, I didn’t grab them off YouTube and they were taken down some time later? I decided not to make that mistake again and grabbed the Season 1 episodes and burned them onto a disc 😉
It looks like the videos are down, but check out B’s Twitter feed.
There are some new music tracks being used in Season 2. In Episode 1 I recognized David Bowie, BBC’s Sherlock, Pacific Rim, and more Yoko Kanno/Cowboy Bebop. I’ve started a playlist of the Season 2 music here: http://grooveshark.com/#!/playlist/The+Genius+Rule+Breaker/93307788
Did anyone catch any other tracks?
(Also, here is my Season 1 playlist for anyone who is interested: http://grooveshark.com/#!/playlist/The+Genius+Rules+Of+The+Game/91717091)
Working on this as well. I can add to Season 1 “Young and Beautiful” by Lana Del Ray, “Freedom” by Anthony Hamilton, and then there’s the random “Jai Ho” clip from Slumdog Millionaire.
Haven’t gone back through this new episode yet, but will this evening to see what I can detect.
Here, have a YouTube playlist of S2E1 music I found while trying to find the episode…
Figured it’d get taken down- glad I saved it (and hope it doesn’t discourage Bumdidlyumptious from continuing somewhere- maybe a locker?)
This was amazing!!! I don’t know about you guys, but I nearly had a heart attack, when they were going to show the last of her cards in the death match (by the way, I’m not particularly good in memorizing south korean names)… It was just the best moment ever, they really had luck that this important last card was with this important last person, as they couldn’t communicate this exactly. But unfortunately I think the main game was too complicated. In fact I really enjoyed it after a while and though I thought a rehearsal would be weird at first, it was a great idea. But I had one problem, I just couldn’t memorize, which room was which environment. They could have made something obvious with the rooms, which would still be useful in further episodes, e.g. Painting the walls with a color that fits or painting the floors or the tables. Apart from that I loved it and I love it so much, though I have already seen the first season, I will follow bumdidlyump’s leads to get it on my computer. Oh yes, this was also a great plus: The cast is great and I’m glad, the woman did survive as I also think there aren’t enough women this year and the other great plus: Bumdidlyumptious. How much time it must take to fight against all those stupid websites that take the work down again and again. I’m really grateful!
I love this show a lot, and I like this show a lot. I suspect I love a show where all this happens very slightly more than I like this show, if that makes any sense – perhaps the degree of abstraction through the need for subtitling means that I like the theory a shade more than I like the practice. The S2E1 soundtrack didn’t quite hit the heights of the S1 soundtrack for me, either.
Quattro… I suspect I don’t like this as much as the Bar audience at large, unless there’s an extra level to the signalling that we haven’t been exposed to yet. For instance, suppose not only were the players signalling the suits they held through where they pointed to on their name badge but also they were signalling which rank they held by virtue of the finger they used to point? If that was happening but the show held over the second half of the explanation until next time they play the game to tell us, that would be incredibly subtle and confident programme-making.
I hereby start Team Lee Dahye. It is way cool that they have a pro go player on there at all, plus I like the way she has played the game so far, and she has a gorgeous smile. Fingers crossed that she can go the distance.
For me Quattro was some very exciting television helped that immediately when they start playing you can see the fun possibilities the game creates, which was kind of ruined by everyone playing it really well. The reveals were tense, though, which is why I forgive it.
One of the things that I most like about The Genius is that the contestants play it *really* well.
I’m not sure if the show would work if the cast were not interested in exploring the games to their fullest.
I also think there are several levels more to Quattro than we saw here: surely we will see it again.
I actually think, the first episode of season two lacks of something that existed in the first season, because no one was aware how complicated/clever those games were. Now everyone knows what will happen and that there will be another twist and another twist, last season it was more of an exploring process and everyone got better by the end of every episode. I really liked this process… Just remember the awesome card trick by turning the cards around. Now everyone will try to think of something like this…
Oh, super interesting theory.
However we must be mindful that the first series had good and bad games and episodes, they might have considered this in games to come.
Episode two appears to be up:
http://bxrme.tumblr.com/post/69603754319/the-genius-1-2-subbed
There now follows some spoiler space.
I haven’t watched it yet.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Right, discuss away!
Once again I think the main game was a little overshadowed by the deathmatch. The main game seemed almost designed to drag on a bit, with rules like a chain longer than 5 not counting. Also a few people lying at the start for no good reason made it longer than it needed to be. It’s a good job they figured out a strategy to turn that 11-chain around otherwise they could really have been there all night.
I was honestly hoping for it to be a set number of rounds, maybe 12 so that everyone had got a chance to be X, and if there had been no straights made by then whoever was X initially would have won and could choose someone else to get immunity and a deathmatch player. But I guess even if that did happen, this didn’t go on that long so it’s moot.
The deathmatch was interesting because a) a good variation on the winning streak deathmatch from last season, b) the slightly unusual betting rules of having to double the initial player’s bet, and most importantly c) the fact that this is the first time the spectators have been both able to bet garnets on the outcome AND influence it.
Previously the spectators have been able to bet on Tactical Yutnori, and had more direct influence on Winning Streak, but this game showed the result of both being a possibility. I expect the producers had hoped for a pro-Hongchul and a pro-Jaekyung team, but obviously in the end everyone ended up conspiring together as the uneven teams ended up making the result obvious so they all just conspired. Something that was good to try once maybe, but probably ended in a way they had to just make the most of spinning into drama.
Oh and also, girlfriend and I are glad Hongchul survived. He certainly seems to have a personality which has shined early in the season so we like him.
This was interesting although the games weren’t as good as last week’s I think, although I appreciate the ideas behind them.
Seat Exchange is quite an interesting idea, at once a game of collective logic puzzle solving combined with individual timing but I don’t think it unfair to suggest it Went On A Bit. If only they cottoned on to the reverse straights a bit sooner.
Sun Moon Star I really dug, and the interesting thing here was that it looked just like a rebadging of Winning Streak (the rock paper scissors one) from last series but actually had rather a large amount of hidden depth which only really became apparent after the first round where the contestant split their bet, and the gradual realisation that because of the betting rules you could potentially lay some really good traps for your opponent.
In many ways I think it’s a shame that collective villainy for the greater garnet good won out here (Lewis correctly pointed out to me on Twitter that it’s the first DM you could bet on a game you could directly influence (you could bet on Tactical Thingy last time but you couldn’t influence the result)), and I rather hope to see it repeated played straight with a few more battle lines.
I liked the Main Match better than the Death Match this week:
Hongchul thought he had a good strategy by sticking to the background.
This turned out to be the worst strategy: since there were vague teams of 5: for as long as they had the X, they were motivated to block the opposing team. Which, with a bit of help from general disorganisation, was managed.
Hongchul was really the key player here – he almost literally forced the game to continue until he was the X, and then was sent to the Death Match for his trouble.
I found the Death Match very disappointing. The game was a worse version of Rock Paper Scissors: the players could enact their betrayal in the background without the tension of facing off; group betting on the result meant there was no real game.
Although the result was probably the correct one, I think the way it happened was a consequence of there being an in-group in the cast. It no longer feels like every player has a fair shot – for me, something of the innocence of the game has been lost.
I think the key in the deathmatch was the garnet betting- if there was nothing on the line for the others it would have probably gone more towards who they wanted out when it came to information. I don’t think it’s a loss of innocence per se- it was more a case of groupthink (they could do the easy thing and get more garnets for the group, or they could fight about it and probably lose some or at worst break even).
I’d love to get my hands on a couple of those chip sets- one thing they haven’t skimped on is the quality.
Next week’s main game looks interesting…
The main game struck me immediately as a game which either lasts exactly two rounds, or FOREVER. Any alliance of five would have to wait out the X traveling through the sequence. Which, in real time, with ten minutes of swap time every round, is an hour of sitting on the sidelines getting paranoid as the other side connects the dots.
More likely it should turn into a game of leapfrog, where the low numbers try to build a coalition before the sequence breaking X makes it around.
I did enjoy the super cut-throat, cold blooded kill the rest of the group put down. Someone made themselves an outcast, and got chopped for it. It does seem like there should be some sort of mathematical trick hiding in that game, but I haven’t figured it out. Something to do with getting 3 for 1 odds on bets, but forcing 2 for 1 wagering amounts.
I think I figured out a trick to Sun Moon Star: If you go second and you haven’t a clue as to the symbol, you can copycat your opponent for half your bet and then add the same number of chips to each symbol, guaranteeing you the same net gain/loss as your opponent.
For example, suppose your opponent bet 2 chips on Sun and 1 on Star. You can then bet 3 on Sun, 2 on Star, and 1 on Moon. If it’s Sun, your opponent gets 6 chips back for a net gain of 3, while you get 9 chips back, also for a net gain of 3. If it’s Star, your opponent gets 3 and you get 6, and you both break even. And if it’s Moon, your opponent loses all 3 of the chips they bet while you get 3 back, so you both have a net loss of 3.
There is, however, one minor caveat to this strategy: If your opponent bets as much as they can, depending on your exact chip counts, they may be able to force you into a position where you can’t distribute the remainder of your chips evenly. (Specifically, they can do this if you have at least 8 chips, they have at least half your stack rounded down, AND your stack size is congruent to 2, 3 or 4 modulo 6.) For example, if you have 8 chips, your opponent could bet 4 to force you to play all 8. If you used this strategy, you’d copycat your opponent for the first 4 chips, put one more on each symbol, and have one left over which you have to put somewhere. If you guess correctly, you win 2 chips more than your opponent, but if you’re incorrect, you lose one chip more. However, I’m not sure if there’s actually a possible scenario in which a clever opponent could exploit this to make a close match more likely to shift in their favor, since your EV is still 0, and if it were a tie going into the last round, you could bet differently to avoid the 2/3 chance of coming out behind (specifically, an all-in split between the two symbols your opponent bet the least on would give you a 2/3 chance to win).
A super-nice strategy that allows the second player to tack with their opponent, allowing them to consolidate a good position.
The only guaranteed chance to improve your position is to know a symbol while being second to declare.
I gave it another episode, but I’m still not feeling the new set. Looks tackier still, and it offers less of those great conspiratorial shots from odd angles with large foreground objects.
Both deathmatch games are a huge improvement over those of the previous season. Indian Poker was dishwater dull, Yutnori only ended after somebody was physically exhausted and messed up, and RPS was essentially a Big Brother vote (no offense to our host). Both new ones were in good enough shape for their first outing, and they look like they could be tweakable. I also don’t have any desire to see non-participants both bet and affect the outcome again; fun to see once, but it will always play exactly like this. In general, I’d like remaining contestants to affect the deathmatch in more indirect and involved ways. For example, if deathmatch is Tash-Kalar, remaining players could each be an objective, and they get to choose when to step up and become applicable.
I can see the risk of main games becoming too complex by half, though right now they’re hitting the sweet spot for me. The metaphor of the food pyramid one held me through that, and the way the lion went was both expected and foreshadowed but oh-so-delicious. I had a bit of trouble with the current episode, until I realised how static the value relations and the seating was, and then I could follow the fun. Would have enjoyed an overlay of current seating when exchanges were discussed, rather than occasional full screen graphics though. I would have been delighted with an actual ending of two straights, two de facto losers, and everyone in on the chase of the immunity idol (which may be over already far as we know, but still). I think the long impression largely comes from the way glossing over the rounds about two-thirds of the way through was rubbed in our faces with the editing, but they seemed to be content-free so who cares. The exasperated cries of contestants on the matter actually amused me.
There’s still a guy whose participation in the game is news to me every time he talks. And not enough ladies. But overall, they seem a more unruly lot, with a much louder social game, which can be fun. I’m skeptical at the moment far as actual, you know, genius is concerned.
“I would have been delighted with an actual ending of two straights, two de facto losers, and everyone in on the chase of the immunity idol (which may be over already far as we know, but still)”
It’s only the middle person of the straight that gets the 10-garnet prize and the immunity idol clue. I guess they could have shared the clue with the team, as they planned to share the garnets, but in that situation only 2 people would definitely have the clue.
Have we seen any of the Token of Immunity clues yet? I’m thinking it’s Andy Warhol.
Not yet, no.
I reckon it’s going to be something less straightforward, like someone from the list of names in the games room has a picture elsewhere (I noticed Zuckerberg’s picture but don’t think he’s on the list).
Considering that Jinho has seen both clues available, could this be the use of the token shown in the preview for E3?
http://i.imgur.com/FzwKzZj.jpg
The only reason I’m hesitant is because it looks like it’s during the gameplay, and they’re usually gathered afterwards to go over the results (and when I’d imagine it’d be used), but seeing as how they’re editing the targeting towards him in the previews, it’s a possibility.
I wonder if the producers expected a bit more wrangling to become the middle position in the winning straight. The prize they offered for being the linchpin outstrips anything they’ve offered yet, but it seems everybody ignored it in favor of survival. If there were exchanges of garnets between alliances to even out the winnings, I missed it.
Overall, a good-not-great episode, with the Main Match dragging on a bit and a potentially interesting Death Match being sabotaged by the survivor’s greedy but correct gameplay.
Jinho has 6 garnets (+4)
Dahye has 4 garnets (+2)
Yooyoung has 3 garnets (+2)
Eunkyul has 3 garnets (+2)
from the main match
Super episode IMV, better than last week’s.
1) The best games in series one had an “Aha!”, with the twist to “Open, Pass” being the best of them all – and very fairly done, and very fairly pointed to. So far, two games, two “Aha!”s, with the “the lion needed to kill another predator” and the “the straight could go the other way”. Like it, like it a lot. I’m not completely sure either game so far has got the optimal “I know how I’d play this game if I were there for real” factor quite yet, but I don’t think all that many games last season did, either.
2) This Death Match was also fab and I’m hoping for more variety in Death Matches this series than last series. I did enjoy the co-operation for more garnets, though hope that it isn’t penalised by the producers being stingier later on in the series.
3) The graphics in the recap were really zippy and the whole graphics package in its entirety is at least as good as that of the first series. I’ll also rescind my relative moan about the S2E1 soundtrack; S2E2’s was fab. Hadn’t heard that Prodigy song for years…
I think the difference between Open Pass and Seat Exchange for me is that OP gradually gave up its cleverness across its thirty-five minutes or so, culminating in saving its best secret for last in a game which in the face of it looked like a game of blind luck, Seat Exchange pretty much gave us the exact measure of what was going to happen pretty much immediately and the politiking afterwards didn’t really do all that much for me, thankfully Jinho eventually spotted something that ended the game and we coukd move on.
It’s very interesting that different people are taking different things away from each game, mechanically I spot the potential in the deathmatches pretty quickly and so far they haven’t disappointed, although like I say I hope they play Sun Moon Star without the sidebetting.
I expect they want the winner to get 100+ garnets as suggested by the instructional this time round. I wonder if the producers considered how the contestants would bet in this situation.
I was really hoping to see two straights completed simultaneously at the end, if only to see (a) the contestants’ reactions and (b) how they would’ve handle the prize distribution — would the two anchors each win 10 garnets, or would they have had to split and get 5 each?
As for Sun Moon Star, I thought it was a neat concept (if a bit similar to Stationary Roulette from Liar Game) but the match turned out too one-sided. I also think the rules slightly favor whoever goes second (in the first betting round), and here’s my logic:
Clearly, knowing the symbol is more valuable to whoever bets second since (a) the first player can only bet half of the opponent’s stack size (2 out of 4 in the first round), and (b) the second player can go all-in without repercussions, while the first player placing a max bet on a single symbol would give away the answer to the second player, unless they can pull off a double-bluff. Secondly, I also think the overall rules favor whoever is in the lead, since you have much more flexibility in terms of defensive play (i.e. you can try to bust your opponent, but your opponent would have a much harder time trying to bust you). Therefore if both players know the first symbol, whoever bet second would easily gain the lead and have an advantage in keeping it.
I think because the second player must bet at least double the first player, a really clever bluff at the right time would be devastating and level things up again if they’re not too far ahead. Of course this doesn’t really work if the entire group is against you.
If they were playing blind (that is, no one had told them in advance what their symbol would be), it’s a little interesting in the first round:
If the first player decided to play the max he could (2 chips to put the other person all in),the better play I think is to put one on each of two symbols rather than both on 1 symbol- the EV for both is about the same:
with 1 on 2 you have a 2/3 chance of ending up with 5 chips, and a 1/3 chance of 2 chips. With 2 on 1 you have a 1/3 chance of 8 chips, and a 2/3 chance of 2 chips. The EV is about 4 in both, but with a 1-1-0 setup there’s a better shot of winning.
The 2nd player’s best play if they have to go all in with 4 chips is to put 1 on 2 symbols and 2 on the 3rd. This way you are assured of survival (you have a 1/3 chance of ending with 6 chips, and a 2/3 chance of 3 chips). The EV in this case is 4. In any other combination, the EV is also 4, but there’s a chance of busting out:
4-0-0; 1/3 chance of 12 chips to 2/3 of bust
2-2-0; 1/3 chance of 6 to 2/3 of bust
3-1-0;1/3 chance of 9, 1/3 chance of 3, and a 1/3 chance of bust.
I’d probably put the 2 chips on the symbol the first player didn’t pick- if it hits, you’re up 6-2 and only have to risk 1 chip to put your opponent all in in round 2.
Again, this is assuming they have no information at all- obviously the way the game is designed if you have information you can base your bets around it and bluff if need be.
I liked the death match (even the betting bit, but as a one time only opportuinity), but I really didn’t like the main game. I thought it was boring to watch and it was taking too long. And Ronald is right when saying, the show lost its innocence, that’s exactly what I think about the second season. I think they should have put games into the first two episodes, that are rather simple and clever and not the games they chose, because I think the complicated games are just interesting when you already got to know the players. Watching the second episode I was really surprised about the guy who wanted that death match girl to change seats with him, never noticed him before. That was a reson why I didn’t like the first season in the beginning as well, but the games were captivating enough to keep me watching and realise how great this show can be…
Genius Episode Three is up. There now follows some spoiler space:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Discuss away.
Ok, I’m going to come out and say I’m finding this series a Bit of a Disappointment.
Look, I know we’re having to read the subtitles and everything, but if I have to rewind the video to understand the rules then that’s NOT a good sign. All three main games this series have been pretty dense and I long for something of the simple beauty of the 1-2-3 game where something with 3 rules still lead to 4 or 5 penny-drop moments over the 45 minutes. I think the graphics this series aren’t as clear as before, and they’re not doing recaps or updates as often as I’d like. It’s quite clear that, at times, the players have got their head around the game that they’re talking several levels above that of the viewer, which isn’t a good thing.
The casting, for me, remains a disappointment. Yes, Sangmin, Jinho, Mr Mischief and Mr F***in Pumpkin have been value, and Jinho’s rival is OK, but too many of the other cast aren’t pulling their weight. And now we’re in week 3 and already we’re down to 2 women. Frankly, that’s idiotic. Unless a bus-full of women are going to invade the studio in week 5, Carry of Camping style, then I don’t see how they’re going to carry this series off.
And… why is this series called Rule Breaker? Anyone? Bueller? Anyone?
I think the issue with this episode is that they over-complicated the game with the treason tokens (if they had to have them, maybe do the reverse of what they did- offer them 1 garnet NOT to use them instead of paying to use them).
The basic game itself was interesting, as there was a trick there- the king each round decided which side would have an even total, and which would have an odd total- if the total was odd, unless all had picked the same gesture, someone had to score. if the total was even, there could be a standoff. They could also wreck scoring by making the minority a majority or causing a standoff since they played last.
The fact that more than 2 people could go to the deathmatch this time is an interesting angle- I suspect what would have happened is that they would have done it tournament-style and everyone played everyone else at least once, maybe twice depending on the number of players, ending up with about a total of 10 rounds.
I also agree that if the remaining women go soon it could get boring, but I think the women are somewhat solid for now.
I don’t think they’d be any need for that, it’s a points scoring game, you could have everyone taking it in turns.
I do understand where David B is coming from (although I feel I should add that frankly not every game was gold in S1 either), I think the episodes are 15-20 minutes longer than last series so the main matches are lasting longer. However to accomodate for this they’re playing quite complex games with large amounts of rounds, whereas the best episodes of the last series had more of a ‘here is your problem, find a solution in ninety minutes, go” vibe – games with more simultaneous play. I’m surprised there wasn’t a quicky rules explanation for this game because I don’t think it was complicated particularly.
I still can’t get my head around Gyal Hap.
If you were making it in the UK you’d have 45 minutes screentime over an hour. I reckon about three minutes for contestant intros and titles, two minutes for end result and credits leaving you 20 minutes and 15 minutes to tell interesting stories in your Main Match and Death Match. I think many of the games this series so far would need some very creative editing to tell a good story with those constraints, but i think it would be doable with many of the better games from last time.
I think I can try to explain Gyul Hap. You want to find a Hap, which is a set of 3 which satisfy all 3 of the following requirements:
1. One square, one triangle, and one circle, OR all 3 are the same shape.
2. One red, one yellow, and one blue, OR all 3 have the same foreground color.
3. One white, one gray, one black, OR all 3 have the same background color.
And once all every possible Hap on the board has been exhausted, you call Gyul.
For the main match, I thought there was a simple strategy that I was surprised not to see anyone in the team of 6 attempt. On the odd-numbered rounds, the team of 6 forms a 3/3 split and all go to A, while the king sends one additional person to A and the remaining 4 on B. No matter what, 3 of your allies in A will earn a point, while at most one person in the opposite alliance in B can earn a point. Then for the subsequent even-numbered round, if someone in B earned a point, swap them with the lone outsider in A, else depending on the situation, you may either perform an arbitrary swap of someone in B with the lone outsider in A in hopes of getting the other 3 allies a point, or leave everyone as-is if the 3 point earners on your team were behind to begin with.
The caveats to this strategy would be (a) there’s a small chance 3 of your 6 allies might simply get unlucky and lose anyway, or (b) the opposite alliance uses their tokens of treason, which could force your alliance to use up more garnets to counter them.
Also, there’s a trick to Gyul Hap: If any single trait is unique on a board, you know it HAS to be used in any Hap with one of each of that attribute. For example, if there’s only one blue shape on the board, it has to be used in any Hap with one red, one blue, and one yellow. Then you can partition the rest of the shapes into red and yellow, which significantly reduces the number of possibilities you need to search through: (1) All red, (2) all yellow, and (3) the sole blue shape, one from the red pile, and one from the yellow pile.
Am I right in thinking a hap is a set of three made up of precisely zero or one matching element?
I’m not sure I understand what you mean, but I think you’re getting at a mathematically equivalent definition of a Hap: A set of 3 is a Hap if and only if no single trait (square, circle, triangle, red, yellow, blue, white, gray, black) appears exactly twice.
Take the example in the explanation video. It’s comprised of a blue triangle on a black background, a yellow triangle on a black background, and a red triangle on a black background. Consider the 3 criteria I listed above:
1. All 3 are the same shape (triangle). Check.
2. One is red, one is yellow, and one is blue. Check.
3. All 3 are have the same background color (black). Check.
Since it passes all 3 criteria, it’s a Hap.
In the same example Hap, there are 0 squares, 0 circles, 3 triangles, 1 red, 1 yellow, 1 blue, 0 white, 0 gray, and 3 black. Since no trait appears exactly twice, it’s a Hap.
Now consider Dahye’s first incorrect answer in the match. It consisted of a red circle on a gray background, a yellow square on a white background, and a yellow triangle on a black background. Now consider how well they fit the 3 criteria:
1. One square, one triangle, and one circle. Check.
2. One is red, two are yellow, and none are blue. This is neither all the same color nor is it one of each color. Fail!
3. One is on a white background, one is on gray, and one is on black. Check.
Since it fails to meet criterion #2, it’s not a Hap.
Alternatively, there’s 1 square, 1 circle, 1 triangles, 1 red, 2 yellow, 0 blue, 1 white, 1 gray, and 1 black. Since yellow appears exactly twice, it’s not a Hap.
(The equivalence of the two definitions is fairly simple to prove. Since each picture has a color, shape, and background color trait, there must each be 3 total color, shape, and background color traits. And since there are 3 possibilities for each attribute, the traits can only be distributed as 3/0/0, 2/1/0, or 1/1/1. The rules state each attribute must be distributed either 3/0/0 or 1/1/1, which is the same as saying it can’t be 2/1/0.)
Yes, I believe you are right, if all the board squares are unique.
Ah, actually not. Blue triangle on Black, Blue triangle on white, blue triangle on grey would be a hap.
This episode was the best of season 2 and it’s still not as good as I had expected. I think the main game was alright, as good as one of the worse games of season 1, so it was acceptable. But the death match was great for last season’s finale, but I didn’t like it that much this time. However seeing more than two people in the death match seems intriguing and seeing more than 1 game in 3 death matches is better than in season 1, but this game didn’t fit the death match atmosphere, I think. Furthermore I’m really not looking forward to the next episode. I think this is a game of strategy and not some physical game. I hope I just didn’t get it with this trailer yet!
It seems like part of the problem with this series is that the players seem hell-bent on find social solutions to this series’ games, rather than analyzing the games’ strategies in a vacuum. Things like Food Chain’s apex predators have to feed on other predators in order to have enough food, or King Game’s odd/even point scoring dichotomy would probably have been figured out and exploited in the first series. However this bunch of players seems content to gather a majority alliance and brute-force their way through the games. While still entertaining, it’s been lacking in those “aha!” moments that made the first series so great.
That being said, I think it’s a bit premature to write off this series as a dud just yet. S1 had its fair share of dud games (Catch the Burglar & Election Game come to mind), and this series has had a massive upgrade in the quality of the Death Matches. I’m also not too worried about the casting, as it wasn’t until the midway point of last season that the individual personalities of all the contestants really started to make themselves known.
I love the simplified Set as a deathmatch game. Contestants take on amusing expressions, you can really play along, and calling a Gyul when there hasn’t been a quiet turn is a very exciting moment. There were a few graphical niggles: grey cards on a grey background don’t really pop out, and the board/contestant split screen wasted too much screen real estate to the frame.
The main game was also good enough. I’m surprised how the kings weren’t deluged with offers of bribery, especially near the end. Also, we got a shot of physical intimidation in the form of someone shoving his crotch in someone’s face. It could have been better if the King had to stay on the throne during his reign; he could grow paranoid, co-ordinating with him would be trickier, and his presence there could provide both a pretext and a check to the double-crossing going on. He could have also been used to set up a more difficult, but more visually striking and informative shot of teams forming, with one cluster literally behind the throne, and the other jammed in the space next to the exit. I could have used speech bubble-style signage like the one used in Food Pyramid though; the editing we got on them flashing signs was hard to follow. At one point, three people partially obscured by the box flashed their signs at us simultaneously and for all of one second; I read the edit as an ill-conceived attempt to make the results reveal exciting.
I agree that they really need main games to shake up the meta-game at this point. Games where each of the different scorable goals is best handled by different numbers of players, where your non skill-adjusted odds of winning are equal irrespective of players on a team but the rewards are divided, where each player is assigned unique abilities and weaknesses, or just games which are very observation-heavy can work. Time pressure, as opposed to the interminable discussion time they seem to get on this season, could also make large scale co-ordination more difficult. Long shoots can generate more usable footage, and give you better odds of something interesting happening, but they’ve went past the point of diminishing returns here.
I was disappointed by the bluntness of the immunity clue, although it could be we are just missing nuances because we are not handling the physical clue or are unfamiliar with Korean wordplay or something. I’d like for the immunity idol not to be some odd-looking tchotchke that can be found by rummaging about, but an obvious set dressing which you need to ID as the immunity token.
I am hoping that the token of immunity is in one of the paint cans in the garage, giving a very visual clue to everyone who might have it.
I don’t mind the game mix so far. At this point in last season, they played three very social games to force the group to intermingle before things started to get strategic.
Slightly disappointed that two players were in the death match… suspect the strategy would look a lot different with even one more player. They certainly set up the main match for it.
The YouTube channel’s back.
Well, kind of. You can only reach the videos through the links on the Tumblr page, but they are on YouTube.
The Genius game seems to be the duplicate of the famous “Liar’s Game”. Check it on You Tube! It’s a comic (later TV Series later Movie) set with a theme quite close with The Genius.
This episode game is quiet close with the Liar’s Game’s “Minority Rules”
I just worked out part of the Season 1 soundtrack. Some music is from Daft Punk’s Tron: Legacy soundtrack.
Episode 4 discussion begins here.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Right, it’s your own fault if you spoil yourself. Go!
Series 2, Episode 3:
The casting continues to cause serious problems.
The editing seems not to be as smart as the previous series: how they communicate the rules and the gameplay feels more difficult to follow.
Main Game: Betrayal leads to tiresome and obvious result. Dominant celebrity males dominate; two females to the deathmatch.
Gyul! Hap!: Even if you couldn’t keep up enough to play along the first time around, you could at least identify exactly how good the players were. This time the editing prevented that. I thought that was really a lose-lose decision.
I thought both deathmatch players showed excellence and it is a shame to lose Dahye.
Interesting ep- the attempt to throw one team off with a spy/counterspy move backfired in spectacular fashion, and the game was interesting- the team who went second I think had a big advantage. The deathmatch again had a betrayal..probably a smart move in the long run.
Next week looks very interesting with the voting system…hopefully it’s explained well because it could be hard to follow if it isn’t…
I thought it was an incredibly good move for Eunkyul to deny his team’s plan, in the rehearsal, to give team Jinho the fewest chances of defending. His ability to have one on one conversations with the rest of the team made his strategy and signalling a whole lot easier. It’s just a shame that everyone’s slips of the tongue outed him as the betrayer!
I’m glad I’m not the only one who figured out the 1-by-1 strategy for Team Jinho’s single point, but I’m also glad that it was explained clearly. A nice move, hopefully realised quickly enough by Team Yoonsun that they just let it end after round 1.
The deathmatch was definitely more interesting this time than last time we had Sun Moon Star. I’m not entirely sure if garnet betting was made available to the spectators or not, since it seemed to be kind of mentioned but never properly brought up, and obviously the gang strategy from last time didn’t happen. Nice of Jinho to shuffle the piles and throw off Sangmin!
And as always, Hongchul is great value.
Also exciting that the safe for the immortality token has been found, though now of course we need a combination.
In other news: girlfriend and I have made a set of cards to play Gyul Hap that we’ll be bringing to Puzzled Pint, along with some specially created boards for a 10-round game. So if you want to actually play some Gyul Hap then come along!
Of course, the lazier ones amongst us who don’t fancy making their own cards could simply buy their own {a href=http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00000IV34}Set{/a}, er, set to play with.
As for Episode 4, I thought it was a definite return to form after a couple of slightly-too-complex games in prior weeks, despite the main match ending somewhat prematurely here. I do tend to agree though that the players this time round seem overly focused on the alliance/betrayal aspect of the game rather than the logical/lateral thinking routes to victory that were so great to see in series 1. Knowing when to make and break alliances was always a necessary part of the game, but it wasn’t the only part of the game, and it’s a shame that aspect is being overlooked a bit. (Much as I’m enjoying Hongchul’s comedy antics I do think he’s the worst offender in this regard, so I’m sort of hoping he’ll be eliminated soon to see whether there’d be a friendlier overall atmosphere.)
Can’t wait for next week!
I wanted a main game to hammer home how betrayal isn’t all upside, and I got it, in spectacular fashion. Too bad this was probably the most boring setup in both series.
Given how non-duelists talked before the game reveal makes me think they knew what game was coming up. Sun-Moon-Star again amused me.
A thing that annoys me this series is how casual players are with garnets. After noticing how they all tend to remain in play irrespective of holder and how the final prize was topped up last time around, they feel free to ignore bribes, spend them on side bets, and throw them away for dubious benefits. It’s about time they played an important role in a deathmatch.
Next week looks promising.
Mmmm-mmm-mmm-mmm. Count me in with those who think these last couple of episodes have been good rather than great. I really like the point Dave M made about people not trying to win the games individually as games. Many people here really liked the more puzzle-y games last series, though they were more frequent towards the end of the series; fingers crossed that that happens again too. I’m hopeful for next week’s main match, for instance.
The Blackout game was more interesting than I thought it was going to be, but I don’t know how interesting it would have been if both teams had played straightforwardly for their mutual short-term benefit – and the only sort of interesting gameplay that could occur would have to be to a player’s team’s own short-term detriment. It’s good to see the occasional blow-out happen for purity reasons, but it’s quite possible for that game to have turned out to have been dull, other than the moderate entertainment value generated through the play of the game.
Hap! Gyul! – both players were clearly playing very well and may well have practiced, though the editing might have been more sympathetic towards playing along at home (either that, or, quite plausibly – while I get the principle – I’m just really slow at it). Poor Lee Dahye.
Casting: mmm, there need to be interesting potential verbs introduced by the staff about ways players can interact, other than just “ally” and “betray”. I’m liking the hidden immunity idol as a tweak.
This week’s main game is based on the various Customs games from Liar Game. I liked the fun visual aspect of it, and it was a shame that it got shortcircuited so quickly, but we have to accept that will happen sometimes.
The reason they are playing down the one-trick games this time is that they don’t work as a format that’s repeatable in other countries. This is technically a wise move, but less fun for the viewer.
Next week seems to be partly based on the board game Article 27, a game all about UN resolutions!
Fighting! Really fun episode, with added bonus of one of the more deadwoodier players going, ironically in a week he decided to step up (Jiwon is great value, I think).
Definitely thought this felt a bit more like a series one episode in tone, Blackout Game was great fun (indeed, the first thing I thought when they started playing is it’s the smuggling game from Liar Game) but yes a pity it ended a bit prematurely. Sun Moon Star played with good strategy, although I thought Jiwon really was going to attempt a bluff strategy but turned out didn’t, but would have been hilarious if he pulled it off.
Good, looking forward to next week’s.
Episode 4 caused a furore in korea because the broadcasting alliance was too obvious in their personal alliance. Some of the actions was obviously an act just for camera to camouflage the broadcaster alliance. Jiwon, hongchul, yooyoung, doohee, sangmin, junghyun (the lucky crow) are actually allied very closely with each other.
While season 1 was the same where outsiders were wiped out early 1 by 1, the eventual winner was strong enough to be the sole survivor and defeat them all 1 by 1. The editing was good to hide the broadcaster alliance as much as possible. Thats also why season 1 was such a hit in korea because the koreans know the broadcasting personality were all ganging up against the eventual winner.
How is Dohee a broadcaster? Isn’t he a hacker, thus closer to the ProGamers?
Doohee is also a contractor to the production. Networks security and even the software for the 5th game.
That would never fly on American television because of our Standards & Practices (strict rules in the wake of the quiz show scandals of the mid-20th century). But then again, that’s the least of the reasons why this show wouldn’t be found on American television.
Oh yeah I forgot to mention I’m a Yank. I live in California.
This is my first post on this forum, so I just want to start off with loads of compliments all ’round.
After a friend of mine in the NPL tipped me off to this game, I devoured season 1 on YouTube (before Bumdidly’s channel was removed) and I’ve been on tinterhooks for weeks waiting for S2 to begin. I’ve watched all the episodes twice so far. I love The Genius. I’m sure my friends are tired as can be of hearing me banging on about this Korean game show nonstop but I can’t help it. I’m addicted.
I can’t tell you how happy I am to find an English-language forum of trenchant, attentive watchers with clever things to say. There are many remarks here I feel like responding to, and might in the future, but I just want to give pats on the back all round to you and express my gratitude for feeding my obsession. Brig, Poochy, Dave, and the rest, I’m so happy I found you and I have ambitions of posting here regularly.
My last compliments are for Hongchul and the Food Chain game. Hongchul is a welcome addition to the cast: I love the “con man” personality he brings to the proceedings. I loved him in the scamming horse race from season 1 and I love having him as a main character now. I hope he lasts a long time or, alternatively, flames out spectacularly. Either would be fine. And the Food Chain game. My favorite game in either season, with the 5-5 game a close second. In terms of the rules and how the games played out, this one was amazing. As a game designer by profession, I am working now on how to organize this game with friends so I can play it myself. My partner and I staged the Zombie game at a party: here is a photo. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151768619382083&set=pb.105082357082.-2207520000.1388991998.&type=3&theater I’m on the right.
And I guess I lied, I also want to compliment Yunsoon. She is ranked as highly as Jinho (or nearly so) by her competitors, and in a season with not enough women (I agree with the other posters here on that topic) she has represented herself admirably.
OK! See you online again soon.
Thanks for coming! It’s good to hear the thoughts of fellow fans.
OK, I think Episode five is incoming (it sounds like Bump. has a job now so episodes will take slightly longer to subtitle) so I’ll start the episode five discussion now.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
And away you go!
Death match was daebakkk.
Main game was just an awesome concept. The solitary lawmaker, different currencies and the voting mechanics do look nicked from Article 27 as predicted upthread, but the ridiculous engine-building combos possible seem to have been designed by either a eurogame or a collectible card game fan. It did look like it wasn’t playtested thoroughly though: The limited size of the buffer didn’t come into play, the winning objective was just too easy to reach given the preposterous reward, and there just wasn’t enough bill proposals all around. I was rather annoyed at the freebie wild cards after losing your chips – pricing them at something like 4-5 garnets would feel better. Still, it was great fun.
Deathmatch was a stripped down version of Khet. You may try it out online against a human or bot at http://boardspace.net/english/about_khet.html . This one looked crazy cool, and could have been awesome with a decent opening layout. The one they settled on played horribly though – far too defensive, not enough complex laser paths. I would certainly welcome back a slightly rejigged version though. And I’m not happy with either the pairing or the outcome.
So the paper cut acknowledged the broadcaster alliance? One of the benefits of short lead time I suppose. Using the placed product in a complex plot point (the photographed clue shenanigans) stresses my suspension of disbelief. The increasingly operatic tone of the talk segments (intro and choosing the second deathmatch player) is beginning to annoy me.
Only outsiders remaining is jinho and yohwan. From here on all deathmatches will be aimed at them. Sad
Yes, but neither will be easy to defeat.
I expect Death Matches now will be pure skill, although I’m sure there will be one featuring returning players at some point, and who will they side with?